Philco 116-B

[electra225]

I got this radio out of a fell down chicken house. IT was in deplorable condition when I found it, but, oddly enough the original grille cloth was still there and was in one piece. I see somehow the grille cloth got a hole put into it during the move. This radio is a ten tube model with a 10" speaker. Basically a console radio guts in a huge table model radio. It is typically a robust performer. IT has developed a bug in the antenna somewhere. Reception is weak unless and until I put the antenna directly to the grid of the 78 RF amp, then it goes like a scalded dog. Something is amiss between the antenna terminals and the RF amp. I have a book on this chassis around here someplace. The search is on.....

[William]

I'm not sure what a Philco 116 radio looks like so I guess I will check with Mr. Google.

Bill

[TC Chris]

Wow, tuned RF, 2 IF amps, and a P-P class A audio amp. Quite the device.

Chris Campbell

[hermitcrab]

Philco was notorious for the coils to turn green and disintegrate... hopefully that is not your problem... but modern rf coils can replace them with a little tuning ...

[electra225]

I've run into the green crud before, usually in Zenith. That typically makes the coil open. I don't believe, at this point, that anything is open. The radio works, just really weak reception. There are a dozen padders in this chassis. When I restored it the first time, I had a padder really out of whach, with similar results.

I owe you guys an apology. I will try to include pictures when I post about something in the future. It is lazy of me and inconvenient for you. I'm sorry for the inconvenience and my awful example. You can get on me in the future if I fail to post a picture without a really good excuse.

Some hobbyists refer to the model of this radio as 116B. Philco lists it as 116-121. The 121 is the version of the chassis used. 126 was an option, using different output tubes. This one uses three 42's in the output. This particular chassis is one of Philco's better early performers.

[Motorola minion]

I have the console version with a two speed record player, the 501X. What can can cause this problem is a dirty band switch and possibly and open coil in that network.

These are probably Philco's best chassis for 1935, mine even worked with its original "solar" paper caps the last time I tried it. Not a recommended practice, but I have had this for 35 years and it sounded great but the speaker needed to be rebuilt.

I have found the green crud and been able to make repairs with very tiny wires and hyper-eutectic solder.

[electra225]

I have found something, I just don't know what it means. First, there is a resistor-looking thing on the rear of the chassis that has 170 VDC on end end, zero on the other. That can't be right. Second, this resistor-looking thing connects to the antenna padder. If I connect the antenna to the band switch, the radio works okay. I'm thinking at this point the issue is between the antenna terminals and the band switch. I need to figure out what that wire-wound resistor(?) does and if it is open. It does not check open measuring resistance. I have cleaned the band switch with no change. The radio is weak on all bands, so this throws suspicion ahead of the function switch. I have pictures forthcoming. I can't find my diagram for this radio, along with all my restoration notes, which were extensive. I saw them the other day.......

I changed the model number in the topic title. 116-B is what the service literature lists, although the sticker in the cabinet says 116. Next, the resistor I mentioned is listed as item 94 on the schematic. The parts list is almost impossible for me to see, but I believe it is listed as 100,000 ohms. It measures less than ten ohms.

[electra225]

AFter studying the print for a bit, I have concluded that I may have messed up.......

Component 94, a wirewound resistor is listed at 7750 ohms, if you use a magnifying glass to read the value. It goes to ground, so it should not have voltage on the ground side. IT measures almost dead on, so it is not a problem. I checked components #1, the wavetrap, and it measures 3 ohms. I measured component #4, the antenna matching transformer, and it measured 6 ohms, spec is 6.5 ohms, close enough. I started tinkering with the adjustments on IF transformers and made some improvement. I don't find any components out of range. I tested then subbed tubes with no improvement. I ran this radio in Missouri on my 100' long outside antenna. Here, I have about a twenty foot long hank antenna. I don't believe this is enough. Is there a transformer/coil/padder in this radio not 100% up to snuff? No doubt. My next step is to perform the rather complicated alignment one more time. I did it several times when I restored the chassis, but I never was satisfied that I had it 100%. One more stab won't hurt anything. I have cleaned the band switch several times with no improvement. It does indicate some attenuation of the signal thru the bandswitch, but that makes no sense to me. Looks like it should work or not. The plastic dial is so dark it's hard to see thru it to read the numbers. I need to see if replacments are still available. Then I want to do something to make the chassis look nicer. Philco chassis are typically nasty, this one is no exception. Any suggestions on what I should do?

[electra225]

I've been doing some cleaning on the Philco chassis. Nasty is the only word I can come up with. Chicken house fresh. I'm going to do the alignment when I get another session in the shop. There is a 78 IF amp tube that is loose on its base. It is in a raised base for the tube shield Philco liked to use. The base is almost as high as the bakelite on the tube, so there's a good chance I'll destroy the tube removing it. I may try some navel jelly or something like that. Lots of black spots of corrosion on this chassis. If I can figure out some way to clean the chassis, I'll tape it off and paint the transformers. Then so something with the tube shields. Oh, yeah, I forgot. The radio snoots may have a stroke since I'll probably use black grille cloth in a vaunted 116-B until I can find something more appropriate. I posted pictures in my first post so maybe this will make more sense.

[Motorola minion]

I just may have some of that chevron grill cloth. That is standard pattern for a Philco like a tartan is to a clan.

Of course when AES had the years ago when I ordered some, they cut it too short but wide instead , so I have to "splice it" on my 501, which has a long, tilted speaker board.

[electra225]

I may be in the market for some chevron grille cloth, Dave. If you look at the back of the speaker cone, you can see the outline of a mud dauber's nest. I left the nest on there for awhile, just for effect. IT was large enough it hit the basket of the speaker and made noise. I have no idea what damaged the admittedly delicate grille cloth. One of the rear feet on the cabinet is missing, always has been. I probably should make a new one some of these days.

[electra225]

I believe I have it as good as it's going to get. Truth be told, the trimmers in this chassis are all dirty. To fix it right, all those transformer padders and all the IF transformers should be disconnected and removed, then taken all apart, cleaned, then put back in the radio and hope for the best. I'm not going to go to that trouble. The worst issue with this radio seems to be two things. First, I was getting stingy with antenna. This radio needs a good antenna and a good ground. Second, the 1st IF transformer was badly out of alignment, the primary being the worst. You may notice in the picture of the chassis, there are two round IF cans, then a smaller square one. Somebody in the past replaced one of the IF transformers with a more modern replacement type. I have a set of IF transformers for this set, but I'm not sure which one is which. For the short term, performance is acceptable. I just need to rig up a better antenna. I've been putting that off.

[hermitcrab]

I knew the model number sounded familiar I had one , gave it to my in laws , they just wanted it for a shelf queen in their rec room.. I told them if it was just for looks to let me keep all the tubes , which I did ... I got a similar one but it is a 37-620 plays real good here is a pic of it

[TC Chris]

I have always craved one of those. When I was a kid, we'd drive 100 miles NW to visit the grandparents in Cadillac, MI. Often Grandma would solve the food problem of 6 more mouths by taking us all to Pleasant Lake where there was an old farmhouse restaurant that served "family style" meal--big bowls and platters of food, typically chicken as I remember, and mashed potatoes and gravy and green beans and all manner of other things, all of which are forbidden to this heart patient now. The house is still there; I went looking for it a few years back. It sits on one of those tiny glacial lakes that abound here.

But just inside, right by the cashier, there was of those Philcos with its glowing yellow arc of a dial. It was my favorite part of going there.

I should probably break my rule against buying more radios and snag one of those, now that old radios are cheap. Or so I hear. (By the way, my rule does not apply to found radios, those sitting at curbside waiting for the garbage truck. Orphan radios are always rescued).

Chris Campbell

[Motorola minion]

I may be in the market for some chevron grille cloth, Dave. If you look at the back of the speaker cone, you can see the outline of a mud dauber's nest. I left the nest on there for awhile, just for effect. IT was large enough it hit the basket of the speaker and made noise. I have no idea what damaged the admittedly delicate grille cloth. One of the rear feet on the cabinet is missing, always has been. I probably should make a new one some of these days.

Ill have to look at my 501, I thought I had a 12" leftover. The Philco market locally is always flush with projects, I must have at least a dozen Philcos in dry storage, from the first AC powered models (87, 111) power tuned late 30s (38-3, 37-9) prewar multi- SW bands (39-116, 41-611) up thru late 40s with FM, and no SW. Many Many....cant save them all but I sure have the parts!

I had sold a 1948 AM-78rpm phono that was a smaller, relatively cheap model and even that sounded fantastic. The effort to restore most all Philco is always worth it, no matter their caste.