Quality of old cars

[walyfd]

Weather kinda broke here in NEPA so I'm back to work on the '62 cadillac. Lot of small and big things (the tires that took 10 months to get here--the last 2 wheels are being powder coated).

So, on an AC car, the blower motor has internal and external cooling hoses. Remember that there was no vent without the motor running. Well, the external hose always disintegrated so I pulled the motor again to replace it right.

The Delco motor is all steel. Including the FAN! No plastic or nylon and the motor was BALANCED. It runs perfectly silently...

These cars amaze me. Always did and will. Mechanical clocks that work after a cleaning, metal dashboards that don't warp or split...

[Firedome]

100% agree, but those beautiful dashboards were baseboards on heads!

[electra225]

Big old cast iron engines that are nearly impossible to kill. Electrical systems that you can see wires from one end to the other and can trace the colors. They hadn't invented hidden splices yet in 1962. Wiring went from Point A to Point B and could be seen nearly it's entire length. Occasionally, a wire would be hidden by some friction tape wrapped around the wire to protect it. The only downside on cars that old from a servicing standpoint is the cable-operated turn signal switch on the tilt column cars. NOT the best design out of GM. It was almost impossible to keep the switch and cable adjusted so the turn signals, stop lights and cornering lights would all work like they should. Typically, one of the three wouldn't work. Those old Frigidaire air conditioning systems had a massive evaporator in them, simply massive. You could cool a school bus with the air condtioning system in those old cars. Buick AC was bad about freezing the evaporator if you ran it for a long time at highway speed. The secret is instead of controlling the refrigerant, modify the system so you can control the compressor clutch instead. You can do this on a Buick, and presumably a Cadillac, without revealing the mods to car show judges if you are careful.

Something as simple as a blower motor can be a work of art. Good old GM engineering.....

We've talked about the stainless steel GM used in those years. Beautiful, high quality material used in that trim.

[Hydrolastic]

Hello, There defiantly is a quality feel to an old car. I am doing some work to a 64 corvette tommorow and I drove it 100 feet yesterday. That thing has a very strong clutch and manual steering so is a bear to drive even the short distance I did. But what a cool car compared to the insect cars of today. My buddy only took video of the car while I was in it. I cannot get just a photo off of it. Its a hardtop convertible so not the coupe . Still is a unmistakable stingray.

[Firedome]

Yep cast iron is the material engines are meant to be built of, and the classic swash-plate Frigidaire compressor/Harrison A/C system was the best ever made imo, (but the bulletproof Mopar V-2 setup was just about as good!). The thicker sheet metal and glass and high quality stainless trim on the outside of vintage cars and the beautiful dashboards compensated a lot for their sometimes indifferent assembly quality (not so much on Cadillacs up to about '66-'68 however), the big door gaps, meh paintwork, crummy tires &c. But overall I wouldn't trade the good materials and positive aspects of those cars for the superior performance, economy, & safety of new cars with all their computers and drive-by-wire electronics and gizmos any time. Luckily we can have both, at least for the present.

[TC Chris]

Agreed about the progress in new cars. My old Ranger is about to hit 200K and I'm just thinking about changing spark plugs for the 2nd time. Turn the key and it goes.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

The A6 GM/Frigidaire compressors were the only ones that could stand up to a V-8 Mack engine torque. Originally, they had a two-cylinder Tecumseh that would run about 10,000 miles before puking its guts. Mack came out with a retrofit bracket set to put a Sanden or a GM A6 on. Most farm machinery such as combines and tractors used the A6 as well. You couldn't kill one. But, they were big and they were heavy. They became obsolete when engines got turned crossways in the engine bay.

[William]

My Riviera's had the A6 compressor. They were awesome, you could hang meat in either car they blew that cold of air.

Bill

[Motorola minion]

My parents bough their first car with factory air in San Antonio - late 1968. See below, ours was not green but pale yellow. I called it the yellow submarine, road and engine noise echoed like being in a huge fuselage, it was a sea change from the "old" wagon and our 68 beetle.

The 64 BelAir wagon overheated one too many times after Dad got an after-market air conditioner, which also sprayed water out if you went around a turn too fast. I and my 3 YO brother thought this was hilarious, Dad not so much. The 283-PG combination was fine in PA, but when Dad found out an undersized radiator was in the 64, it was no more Chevy!

This was our first MoPar, so the starter sound took some getting used to. The Airtemp AC in that car was incredible, putting frost on the inside of the windshield. The electrical problems made it even more interesting. That wacky-looking "super light" never worked, the 383 stalled on hard left turns and we found a way to play the radio without the key. If you turned on the radio, pushed on the brake pedal and used hazard flashers, the radio would go on and off.

1969 Dodge wagon.jpg (52.05 KiB) Viewed 3453 times

[electra225]

When I went thru GM air conditioning training in the 1970's, the instructor claimed that GM vehicles of that vintage had three tons of refrigeration on board.

[Motorola minion]

When I went thru GM air conditioning training in the 1970's, the instructor claimed that GM vehicles of that vintage had three tons of refrigeration on board.

That is a huge evaporator on the GMs most obviously. That sheer amount of cooling power (3 tons = house total for central air!) may have made up for the Airtemp's robust mechanical. The 69 Pontiac GP will be chilling soon using 134a, the R12 was evacuated.

[walyfd]

My buddy is an AC expert. Drives around with a thermometer in the air vents of his cars. His '62 will frost the chrome vents. I've even seen steam or vapor come out of them like a refrigerator...

He did work on my '91 but it'll never blow as cold as the '62.

[William]

His 62 would have had the GM A6 compressor. Like my 73 Riviera, it would freeze you right out of the car. I always had to mix heat with mine to be comfortable. I'm guessing your 91 had the more efficient rotary compressor, and all though a good compressor it did not get as cold as the A6. Even Rolls Royce used GM's A6 compressor, along with Saginaw steering, and the GM 400 transmission.

Bill

[electra225]

So did Jaguar.

GM cars all had the same size air conditioning whether you had a Vega or a Fleetwood. The only difference was the length of the hoses, and the strength of the blower. Dual air conditioning systems excepted, of course. They just added another evaporator and blower on the dual systems.

[Firedome]

The main reason I sold my '58 Olds and got a '69 Cutlass was the excellent A/C. Very few GMs excepting maybe Caddys came with A/C until at least the early '60s. Plus the late '60s A bodies handle so much better, and are a handy size. I've always felt the '55/56/57 Chevys were just about the ideal size and weight for a car, and the Cutlass is almost identical in length, width and wheelbase to the Tri-Five Chevs, much more powerful, and has that great A/C! I bought a case of R-12 at K-Mart for 88 cents a can when I first heard that it was going to be phased out and still have 5 or 6 of them so can keep that all original as well.

[electra225]

The first air conditioned car in our family was grandpa's 1960 Electra 225 flat top hardtop. The first air conditioned car I ever saw up close was Ralph Musselman's red and white 1957 Olds 98 four door hardtop. The old five-cylinder compressors on both those cars was about twice the size of the A6 and took 200 horsepower to pull. The evaporator in the Electra would ice up.

[William]

The first A/C car I remember was Mrs. Gamble's Caddy, maybe a 1961? I went to the grocery store with Mom and here was this white Caddy sitting in the parking lot running with no one in it. I thought that odd, and as we were leaving the store Mrs. Gamble was leaving at the same time. Since everyone knows everyone in a small town I asked why she left the car running. "Well honey, that way it's cool when I bring my groceries out to the car and I have ice cream and I did not want it to melt." Oh, I said and thought that was amazing. In todays world, If one were to leave their Caddy (or any vehicle) running, unlocked, it would not be there when they came out. But back in the day in a small town you would find most cars parked in a lot or downtown with their keys in the ignition. And, no one ever locked their houses.

Bill

[walyfd]

Now we have remote starters which even I employ, especially in winter!

I was told when air became an accepted option and not just a fad, people would purposely drive with their windows closed to make people THINK they had air. And some went so far as to add the pre-1957 GM trunk scoops!!!

Odd that Packard and Cadillac both had air in 1941 and it was abandoned until 1953... You'd think it would have been an option for '46, '47 or even '48 when the really new post-war cars came out...

[electra225]

Menno Duerkson did an article in Cars and Parts magazine on the air conditioning system in the 1940 Packards. If I remember right, the compressor ran all the time. They had not invented, or thought of, using an electric clutch to disengage the compressor. I don't remember whether the compressor was engine-driven or off a power take-off of some kind. I miss Cars and Parts magazine. One of the best collector car publications ever. I still have a stack of Cars and Parts magazines.

[walyfd]

It was belt-driven and the only way to not have it run was remove the belt. Quite a pain.

I liked Cars and Parts, too... think I started buying them around 1982...