A Question On Timing

[19&41]

I haven't done that, but I have sprayed starting fluid into the intake when it wouldn't start with no result.

[electra225]

I found a box of my notes and scribbling that I made when I twisted wrenches. Your truck is a '96 which, fortunately, makes it an OBD II type vehicle. This should make it easier to troubleshoot than the older Fords where you had to have a breakout box to get a data stream out of the computer, then it wasn't live. I remember you had the truck to a shop, where they couldn't get the condition to occur for them. If they gave up, that might mean they don't care one way or the other. You'd think they'd be curious enough or have enough personal integrity that they wouldn't return the truck to you until they figured out what ailed it. I wonder if it's now time to find someone willing to connect a live stream scanner and a fuel pressure gauge to the truck, then babysit it until they got it to fail. With the ability to see fuel pressure and live data out of the computer, surely something material will be discovered giving a clue as to where they need to look. Ether-based starting fluid is designed to be used with heat ignition, diesel, engines. Diesel fuel is not as volatile as gasoline. Additives are added to the ether in starting fluid to decrease volatility. This to prevent ether locking the engine and to make it easier to use, both from an evaporation standpoint and from not being so volatile, likely to explode at or on the user. The additives can, under certain conditions and in certain vehicles, render starting fluid unusable for gasoline fueled, spark ignition engines. It may not burn, or you may not get enough in the intake stream to let the engine start. It works better in carbureted engines than it does in fuel injected engines. I don't remember whether your engine has sequential injection that fires with the cylinder, or lawn sprinkler injection where all the injectors fire with #1 cylinder at TDC. With the suggested test equipment connected, the starting sequence can be seen in real time. The code readers you get at Auto Zone won't work. You need a professional scan tool such as an All-Data system. It could be something simple such as crankcase dilution (too much fuel in the oil) to cylinder misfire caused by a bad spark plug, plug wire, something like that. A good independent shop that deals with older vehicles will be more than capable of figuring it out. The dealer may or may not have any interest in what ails a 25-year-old truck when they sell new ones. Good luck.

[19&41]

I'll be doing some troubleshooting with my scanning tool, but first, the charging lamp has remained lit since I had to replace the battery due to a dead cell. I'll be checking the wiring and I also have a VR module on order.

[electra225]

Check to see you have battery voltage at the alternator. Wasn't it Ford that had that little wire for the alternator that ran along side the postive battery cable? That little wire would corrode and kill B+ to the alternator. Some cars had fusible links at the starter solenoid that fed the alternator.

[19&41]

It has the wire. It will be on my list of culprits.

[electra225]

The little wire typically corrodes internally, right at the battery terminal. You can usually see a bulge in the insulation if it's badly corroded, but I've seen them intermittent and still look okay. Wiggle the dickens out of that little wire as you have your test light at the B+ terminal on the alternator. You used to be able to buy that positive battery harness complete, but you may have to make your own now.

[19&41]

On mine, it's connected to the multiple plug that plugs into the VR. I'll check it.

[electra225]

Yeah, Ford runs the B+ in the main plug on the VR, GM uses a separate terminal. Check, also that the B+ terminal is not burnt in that plug where it connects to the VR. The early Taurus liked to burn up that plug on the alternator. They had a TSB on it, IIRC.

[19&41]

Disconnected the battery, removed the loose jumper connector on the alternator, restressed the connector socket, put everythig back together and the light extinguished. I'm warming it up to see if it will do it's stuff.

[electra225]

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[19&41]

I started the truck and warmed it up twice. I recorded live data when the truck started normally using a manual trigger to start the 54 frame recording. I wanted to show the frames I recorded during a 5 second crank before starting followed with the frame during an immediate start. I'm not sure what I should be looking for in the data. See, if you would, if you see anything that should be of concern.

Frame 1 5 second crank.JPG (47.81 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

Frame 2 5 second crank.JPG (46.97 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

Frame 3 5 second crank.JPG (47.32 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

Frame 4 5 second crank.JPG (47.87 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

Frame 5 5 second crank.JPG (47.85 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

Frame showing normal start engine warm.JPG (47.05 KiB) Viewed 3469 times

[electra225]

"Engine RPM 0" on the first couple of crank times. It showed RPM of 766 on the subsequent cranks. The engine temp was 54 degrees centigrade (celcius) which may not have had the engine in closed loop. The injector on-times were okay. The O2 sensors looked okay. I'm assuming the engine started and ran acceptably. Which, if any, of the frames you showed experienced a long crank time with no start? Your scan tool shows all the good stuff. What does the book say you should have for ignition timing advance? Your data shows 0 degrees. Is the engine starting and running as it should?

If you are not seeing timing advance and if you are not seeing engine RPM, were you getting spark on the first couple of cranks you showed? Plus, your data showed fuel trim, the injector on time, but did you have fuel pressure?

[19&41]

Frames 1-3 were taken during the 5 second crank. The engine then started, which was frame 4. the timing was set to 5 degrees BTDC with the spout removed, correcting to TDC with the spout replaced. it starts and runs fine when it starts cold.

[electra225]

Do you still have the long crank time with no-start? Or is it starting normally at this time?

[19&41]

Because of the alt problem, I have not run the truck much. it long cranked the day I installed the dist. it did so again today. I can't say it will no start until it does or doesn't do it again. It is cool here, so I think that is the reason for the long crank as opposed to the no start. Summertime temps cause hard fails. I'll have to buy tackle to do fuel pressure that will come with the requisite funds.

[19&41]

I'v been driving it to work over the last few days. The distributor made quite a difference in the engine's performance. The long crank happens in the first hour or two after getting into work. I imagine it may get worse when the summer weather comes on next week. The engine runs so smoothly at stops, compared to before, one would think the engine died. no loping, no pullback when cruising, steady acceleration.

[William]

Does this mean it's "A" ok now?

Bill

[19&41]

It still has difficulty in starting when warm or hot.

[electra225]

Have you had a fuel pressure gauge on it yet? Sounds like maybe the fuel pressure is bleeding off when it sets. That would naturally cause a long crank time while the fuel rail filled with fuel. Have you tried cycling the key two or three times before you start the engine? That should build fuel pressure, and eliminate or change the long crank if the fuel pressure is going away for some reason, such as a leaky fuel pressure regulator, or a leaky fuel injector.

[19&41]

One characteristic of the truck, is the fuel pumps are loud enough to hear them inside. When the key is moved to on whichever pump is selected runs and cuts off as with other Fords I've owned when the fuel rail pressurizes. I've looked up gauge sets at HF, but they are just a bit much for me right now.