Snow tires?

[TC Chris]

I know that certain participants live in places where cold weather means you turn the air conditioning down. Let me remind you how the other half lives. Here in Michigan, we have snow in the forecast for the next couple days (on Thursday it was in the 70s). One reason for having Thanksgiving is that it reminds me when to put the snow tires on. That's about when our first big battle with the white stuff breaks out. So today I rolled the snow tires out. Wow, both still held air. One was full and the other was down about 6 lbs since April. Not bad. I did find what looks like a possible nail head in that one but I have finally learned to leave them unmolested. Out came the floor jack. I could get the lug nuts off because I had put the tires on, not those overzealous air-wrench enthusiasts at the tire shop. The wheels for the snow tires are aluminum and the nuts are steel, making bad match for salty roads, so I decided to try some anti-seize on the threads and the seat area of the wheels. Kinda like the dielectric grease under the power transistors....

See what fun we have in Michigan on days off?

Chris Campbell

[William]

I'm right there with you, Chris. It's snowing right now, and I'm two hours south of you so you are probably getting it too.

Bill

[hermitcrab]

Chris , stay out of any belle tire shop if you have anti-seize on your threads .... they will absolutely refuse to re install your aluminum rims because they claim the anti-seize will wow out the lug holes... been there done that , they basically held my Pick-up for ransom until I got another replacement rim because I had minimal wear on the lug holes... on a dodge you gotta paint anti-seize on like paint... aluminum steering knuckles and steel wheel bearings don't mix either...without anti-seize on them , a stick of dynamite won't separate them...

[TC Chris]

Chris , stay out of any belle tire shop if you have anti-seize on your threads .... they will absolutely refuse to re install your aluminum rims because they claim the anti-seize will wow out the lug holes... been there done that , they basically held my Pick-up for ransom until I got another replacement rim because I had minimal wear on the lug holes... on a dodge you gotta paint anti-seize on like paint... aluminum steering knuckles and steel wheel bearings don't mix either...without anti-seize on them , a stick of dynamite won't separate them...

I was thinking that I had read some reason NOT to use anti-seize. Maybe I'll try a removal tomorrow of the weather improves (rain & snow right now).

Chris Campbell

[19&41]

I would be concerned that the anti sieze's properties would lubricate the lug nut/seat to the degree that there wouldn't be as much resistance to the tire gorilla's megatorque drivers and that would deform the nut seats. I've had the idiots pop the closed ends of my solid metal nuts torquing them.

[electra225]

If anti-seize compound is applied to the threads of the lug studs and to the back flange of the wheel, sparingly, then it works to advantage. If, however, it is slathered on like barbecue sauce, then the above-referenced gorillas with an impact wrench can do damage due to the lubricity of the anti-seize messing up their lug torque.

Out here we don't use snow tires. Those people who go to the high country skiing or whatever, are required to carry tire chains. ADOT posts warnings of tire chain requirements during "snow events". Around here, winter means planting the geraniums, turning off the air conditioning, and digging the Buick out for car show season, getting it serviced, etc.

While you guys back east are storing your cars for the winter, we are making our contribution to the economy by burning $5 a gallon gas at 8 miles per gallon. It cost more to drive the Buick to the show today than it does driving the Mini to work all week, almost 150 miles.

[TC Chris]

Belle Tire is where I go for new tires and tire repairs, so I decided to remove the anti-seize. If course, I woke up this a.m. to find a couple inches of wet snow on the ground. I removed each wheel and used gasoline (good stuff: rec gas, no ethanol, kinda like cooking with your best Scotch) to clean each hole in the wheel, each nut, and the stud threads. Nobody will know that anti-seize was there.

Then I had my first winter scare. It happens each year: brake at the stop sign and find the truck sliding, etc. At this time of year they don't usually spread salt because the road surface is still warm enough to melt the snow Tonight I was running errands---grocery store, pharmacy, office--and took the faster route home. It's 4 lanes, 45 mph along the waterfront. There's a bridge over the river where it empties into the Bay and you're turning slightly, and all of a sudden I'm doing a little drift. Whoa!! We have signs all over our freeways reminding us that bridge surfaces may freeze before the road does. And guess what? It did. Now I'm ready for winter driving. It's the season for granny driving. And if my tire goes flat I can go to Belle Tire.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

Snowing here now. Makes me wax nostalgic for the days of installing the snow tires the first week of October and taking them off around tax day IF AND ONLY IF the snow had melted.

When I bought the '57 Cadillac, it had a set of WW snows. Wish I kept them as the other 3 tires were original.

I'm glad I learned to drive in bad weather (there's no bad weather, just bad drivers?) With rear-drive cars. A full tank of gas and snow tires that looked like gears... didn't always get you where you wanted to go.... but gave you the best shot.

I can remember plowing through snow 8" and deeper with the old rear-drive cars (my cadillac brougham especially) and the hearse and station wagons while Hondas and other fwd cars were beached on snow banks. Gingerly accelerating and knowing when to slip into neutral on a hill isn't something you learn in driving school.

Who remembers buying a smaller (215) snow tire on a 225 tire car so it wouldn't look too high in the back? Plus it gave a little more spin...

We were one of the last 2 houses on the street to get oil heat. I remember my dad and neighbor kept the first 2 buckets of coal ashes for our cars and people would scope out the neighborhood for ashes all winter...

And I also remember a Plymouth at our local AACAshow with factory sanders in the trunk...

I'm glad I learned the skills to drive in snow. I never had trouble with rwd cars without computers. I drive every car like my first 77 cadillac... carefully and pump the brakes MYSELF. No antilock brake is going to tell me to stomp on it an it'll magically stop. Be dead between TA and DA. I think over confidence in fwd cars is a problem... you drive the car, the car doesn't drive you.

When GM first came our with traction control around 1993, you couldn't shut it off. We had a car get stuck in 2" of snow because it thought it was slipping and it applied the brakes. Stupid car...

There was something special seeing 2+ ton cars gliding over snow-covered roads, especially station wagons. Funniest was to see a convertible in January, top up and covered in gook with its frozen passengers (remember that HEAT was an option a lot of cars into the '70's)... but gave hope for spring like the first crocus...

[TC Chris]

I'm glad I learned to drive in bad weather (there's no bad weather, just bad drivers?) With rear-drive cars. A full tank of gas and snow tires that looked like gears... didn't always get you where you wanted to go.... but gave you the best shot.

I can remember plowing through snow 8" and deeper with the old rear-drive cars (my cadillac brougham especially) and the hearse and station wagons while Hondas and other fwd cars were beached on snow banks. Gingerly accelerating and knowing when to slip into neutral on a hill isn't something you learn in driving school.

I'm glad I learned the skills to drive in snow. I never had trouble with rwd cars without computers. I drive every car like my first 77 cadillac... carefully and pump the brakes MYSELF. No antilock brake is going to tell me to stomp on it an it'll magically stop. Be dead between TA and DA. I think over confidence in fwd cars is a problem... you drive the car, the car doesn't drive you.

There was something special seeing 2+ ton cars gliding over snow-covered roads, especially station wagons. Funniest was to see a convertible in January, top up and covered in gook with its frozen passengers (remember that HEAT was an option a lot of cars into the '70's)... but gave hope for spring like the first crocus...

Agreed. I remember driving back from Bay City to Ann Arbor is a huge blizzard after Xmas in the '65 Olds Starfire. By the time I got there, the streets were littered with abandoned vehicles. I drove around them and kept the car moving, right through lights and stop signs. Just keep moving and pretend there's an egg between your foot and the accelerator or brake pedal. It works. Made it all the way back to my house but then got stuck in the driveway. Didn't matter, I was home. Years later, I'm still driving RWD, 2WD vehicles.

And the convertibles... yes, my '61 Chevy's invoice shows the charge for the heater.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

When we got married, the wife had a '63 Falcon with a 144 cid six and two-speed Fordomatic transmission. Quite possibly the slowest car ever built. That thing was like a bulldozer on snow. We put Firestone Town and Country snow tires on and a sack of shelled corn in the trunk. You couldn't stick that car, because it didn't have enough power to spin the rear wheels. A Buick with Positraction is the most miserable vehicle on slick roads I can imagine. Whichever way you turn the steering wheel determines which ditch you will soon be in. The Buick sat in the garage during bad weather. That old Falcon had a manual choke and would start regardless of how cold it was. It was as dependable of a car as I've ever seen. You couldn't kill it.

[19&41]

The last few years I lived in Michigan I had a '81 Toronado. That old unit went through snow just great. I also had a '83 Bronco II with a 5 speed and 4WD. One day I was on a country road that was glazed over with ice. I saw an intersection on up the road and went to slow down I was always told to downshift and slowly release the clutch. That was apparently for a RWD vehicle. When I drew the clutch up the vehicle was spinning around on its own axis. My next Bronco II was a RWD automatic.

[TC Chris]

My best winter car by far was the '62 Corvair I owned for a year in TN. A previous owner had removed the choke linkages, which made it very hard to start. For the first few days I'd close them with rubber bands. Then I bought new link rods, put them on, and the little car started faithfully. It was just an all-star in ice and snow, even with the very marginal retreads I was rolling on. It was just a great fun car, reliable and lively, and my first manual transmission daily driver. The only time it threw a belt was when I loaned it to my boss for a day.

Chris Campbell

[William]

Back in the day, as a young lad in my 20's, it was not uncommon for me to have at least two vehicles and sometimes three. One was the special, do not drive in the winter vehicle. One was the winter beater, and occasionally one was a pickup. During the time I had my 1973 Buick Riviera GS I had a 1964 Buick LeSabre as the winter beater. The LeSabre was one of those cars that would plow snow and never get stuck or let you down. Jump in the car, press the gas pedal once, turn the ignition key to start, release the key and it was running. There was no cranking, cranking, cranking. It just started. Running that car in the winter was a pleasure. It had bias ply tires (don't remember the brand) in the front and what the Standard gas station called Suburban snows in the back. I'm not sure if the name Suburban was the brand or the type of snow tire. The station also tractionized the tires. It basically made Swiss cheese out of the tires but allowed you to drive in pretty much every road condition winter would give you. Here's a video of the tractionizing process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5bnYgI30ZQ

Bill

[19&41]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard of that process before. I do remember carbide studs being either installed on the tires, or the tires coming from the factory with them. I think I've only owned 1 pair of snow tires. For me, it isn't so much the snow, but the ice that poses difficulty.

[William]

You are correct, Rex, and the ability to stop.

Bill

[TC Chris]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard of that process before. I do remember carbide studs being either installed on the tires, or the tires coming from the factory with them. I think I've only owned 1 pair of snow tires. For me, it isn't so much the snow, but the ice that poses difficulty.

My winter bicycle tires have studs in them, thanks to our friends in Norway who know what winter is all about. They are great for two-wheelers in the winter. Studs are illegal for motor vehicles in Michigan now. They work really well, but they chew the "deleted" out of the road surface. They gouge channels in the pavement. Really destructive. They are still legal in WY, where my brother lives, but the whole state has only as many residents as two blocks in my neighborhood.

I bought my first snow tires, used, from my scoutmaster. His '63 Chevy wheels fit my '61 Chevy just fine and the tires, well, they were a bit worn, but had enough bite left to be an improvement.

Chris Campbell

[19&41]

It was funny driving through Wyoming and seeing interstate exits for just 1 person/residence.

[TC Chris]

You are correct, Rex, and the ability to stop.

It's a spectator sport here in northern lower Michigan. The fools in their massive SUVs assume that since they can start (AWD), they are in full control. They fly past on the highway at 80 mph and are often found in the median a way up the road. Starting does not equal stopping, folks, and your AWD vehicle may start faster than my 2wd pickup but it doesn't stop any faster. I've never forgotten two letters to the editor from 20 years back. In the first one, a man observed that since he had moved north from downstate, he was disturbed by all the slow drivers who he got stuck behind in the winter. Anybody who did not have AWD should stay off the road, in his view. Harrumph. About a week later there was a reply from a nice lady who responded that her husband has driven a plow for the county road commission for many years. They had a 2WD sedan that he drove to work. He always got there. When he was plowing, he noticed that most of the vehicle in the ditch were AWD or 4WD.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

When I was running a propane route, the truck I had was a '74 International 1600 with a 345 V-8 and five-speed transmission with a two-speed rear axle. It was on 900-20 tires and had a 2000 gallon tank. I had an account that was an old folks' home. It was located on a blacktop road, at the top of a 6% grade that I couldn't get a good run at. The grade was not very long, but it was steep. If the weather was bad, and I had to go to that account, I had to "chain up" to make sure to make it to the top, ice, snow, whatever. I could not use metal chains on a propane truck because of the risk of sparks and/or static electricity buildup. So I used plastic chains. Made from a composite material much like they use in dentures. That was the best setup for slick/bad weather roads I ever saw. I could control that truck dependably on a surface so slick I couldn't walk on it. When the tank got empty, then it wasn't quite as good, but I never had any trouble. The secret to making it up an icy hill with a truck was to drop the right hand tires just slightly off the road, into the grass. That kept the truck going straight and kept the rear tires from spinning. I did that more going down a slick hill than I did going up one.