Classic Hifi Care

Most equipment I own use a ceramic cartridge ... audiophiles claim magnetic or nothing...I have a couple modern component systems that use a mag cartridge... my old ears don't hear difference... is this all just a matter of taste or another internet thing like the 12AX7 controversies ... you gotta use this tube over that tube because... reasons

I own both types. I find a Stanton 500 series magnetic hard to beat. I also believe the EV 26 to be one of the best cartridges ever, a ceramic. Magnavox never used magnetics in its tube stereos. I pay little attention to audiphiles and their adherence to foolishness.

I work with a variety of older electronic items and it seems for every purpose other than in phonograph pickups, ceramic elements are spotty in their function. I wonder how cartridges retain not just some, but their full range of function regardless of their age?

Back when I was young and had really good hearing, I could hear the difference between Magnetic and Ceramic. The Magnetic had a wider range of frequency which made them sound fuller, or, bigger if you will. Now that I am old, and have some hearing loss, it's harder to tell. Typical of me, I have the complete opposite hearing loss. Most seniors lose their upper end. Nope, not me, I can hear high pitched stuff, in the upper frequencies. Stuff that no one else can hear. My loss is the frequencies that cover the human voice, which sometimes makes it difficult to understand conversations especially in larger rooms. Hearing on the phone is another problem for me. I got hearing aids this year, and they help. But, they suck for listening to music. When it comes down to it, hearing loss is not fun.

Bill

Magnetic cart if you want to play 78's you gotta change the stylus which can be a pain... and then if the cartridge in question even has a 78 stylus available for it...... one reason I like the old flip overs... but it is just me... I know what you are saying on the hearing Bill, I have a weak left side , and I have been advised to get a hearing aid for it...getting old sucks ...

I've been fortunate with my hearing. I always used hearing protection when so advised. I shoot and use hearing protection regularly. I have better hearing at 65 than younger people I know. The drawback is I have to use a white noise generator at night, or a dog barking within a half mile of the house will wake me up.

Yes, Elton, it does! I only used my magnetic cartridges for LP's. The ceramics with the flip needles got the 78's.

You are lucky, Rex. I asked the hearing specialists, I have seen more than one, why I had hearing loss, and, why my hearing loss was backwards from the norm for seniors. All said it was hereditary, which makes since. My Dad's dad was deaf and had hearing aids. My Mom's mom had hearing loss as well. She did not have hearing aids, but probably needed them. I too always have, and still do, use hearing protection. But, mostly, because the high pitched sounds stuff makes drives me nuts.

Rex, you must be a light sleeper. Having a hearing loss works well for a good nights sleep.

Bill

My wife accuses me of having bad hearing. I have tinnitis, but not bad as some say theirs is. It really doesn't bother me. My hearing loss is mostly selective, if you get my drift.....

I have never used hearing protection. I couldn't have spent all those hours listening to the turbocharger scream on a Mack V-8. Or the straight pipe on a Chrysler Industrial 6 in grandpa's old Massey Harris tractor. Or listening to music maybe a little louder than necessary. Yeah, I probably have hearing loss. It doesn't bother me. I sleep like a baby most nights. I've done that all my life. The best place to sleep is in a truck with the engine idling. Kind of like Rex's white noise.

It's probably been 30 years ago now, but I used my Dynaco SCA-35 with both ceramic and magnetic cartridges. I had it set up so I could satisfy myself on which I liked better, ceramic or magnetic cartridge. I used two turntables, one with ceramic cartridge, one with magnetic. I used the same amp, speakers, room accoustics and music. As I recall, there was little to no difference in one or the other. I agree that a magnetic cartridge sounds better generally nowadays, but I wonder if that has more to do with the amp, speakers and accoustics. The ceramics I have are in console stereos. The magnetics are used with a component system.

Magnetics usually are more compliant and will produce less record wear. And their upper frequency response is more extended and smoother. That will mostly matter when you're listening carefully to a well-produced recording. At other times we're less picky, right? I have the big system on in the living room playing the public radio music station but the same station is playing on a little Zenith table radio next to me as I'm typing. It's perfectly satisfactory for non-critical listening.

Chris Campbell

Ceramic cartridges get a bad rap, but there were some that were quite good. The better ceramic cartridges of the 1960s certainly did not chew up records. The better ones had great sound and good compliance. Both E-V and GE made some fine ceramic cartridges. The problem today is that they haven't made genuine replacements for many years.

I have some old Consumer Reports magazines from the 1959 to 1962 period. I have always liked the EV 26 ceramic cartridge. CR was not so enamored by them. They also didn't like Zenith TV's. Or RCA. Or Magnavox. They did not rate Magnavox stereos as top-rated.

I agree with Ken that ceramics got and continue to get, a bad rap. Audiophoolery being what it is.....

Ken, I have two or three little cheap GE Trimline stereos with the GE C-100 ceramic cartridge. They look a lot like an EV 26 and seen to work fine and track fairly light. Any opinions on those?

Vintage Consumer Reports magazines, how interesting. I have never had much faith in what they have to say. When I purchased things they gave a high rating too, they turned out to be lemons.

Bill

There were some very advanced and expensive ceramic cartridges that used different principles of physics than either magnetic (MM or MC) or traditional ceramic cartridges. One of these was the Micro Acoustics ceramic Piezoelectric electret-condenser cartridge, the 2002e being perhaps their best known model. MA was the producer of Micro-Point recording industry cartridges and stylii for cutting master records. Here's a complete rundown:

http://www.roger-russell.com/sonopg/micropg.htm

I have an MA cartridge that came in a Phillips TT, and of all my cartridges, Shure, Pickering, Audio Technica, various standard ceramicsi Garrards, VM.s etc, I'd have to say the MA is the most lifelike, to my aging ears anyway. I love it.

Bill, I believe you may be familiar with where/how I got the Consumer Reports magazines I have. And you are right. If CR recommends something, I avoid that item. If they pan it, I buy it and get good service from it. They recommended a model of Yokohama tire one time that I bought and put on the old Pontiac. That was the noisiest, roughest riding set of tires I ever owned before I got a set of Pirelli run-flats, which were worse.

electra225 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:40 pm
Ken, I have two or three little cheap GE Trimline stereos with the GE C-100 ceramic cartridge. They look a lot like an EV 26 and seen to work fine and track fairly light. Any opinions on those?

That's exactly the cartridge I was referring to. Those had good compliance and caused very little record wear.

electra225 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:40 pm I have some old Consumer Reports magazines from the 1959 to 1962 period. I have always liked the EV 26 ceramic cartridge. CR was not so enamored by them. They also didn't like Zenith TV's. Or RCA. Or Magnavox.

Well gee, what TVs did they like?
Zenith TVs are tops in my book. Magnavox made good B&W TVs, but their color sets were only so-so.

I'll have to check, but I believe Admiral made a top rated set they liked. Thanks for the info on the C-100. I have a couple C-100 cartridges in those "Custom" tone arms that look like they would weigh five pounds, but track fairly light. The TV guys turn up their noses at "Maggotbox". I have one, I guess I'll find out how good it is in time. I regret passing up a chance to buy a Magnaox roundy with P-p audio a few years back. You NEVER see a Magnavox tube color TV anymore.

Sonotone made some good ones too. I've got a mono Emerson portable phono that somebody had put a stereo Sonotone cartridge into; think it's a 9T. The portable has a couple side-firing 6" speakers so it almost looks like stereo. It has a P-P output, 50L6s as I recall. Here's an interestig piece on Sonotone cartridges:

http://www.roger-russell.com/sonopg/sonopc.htm

Chris Campbell

I came across that Sonotone link a while back, Chris. It was an interesting read.

Bill

There is a passage in the link that Chris posted that I found interesting. To wit:

They were talking about ceramic cartridges and their difference between them and crystal and magnetic. "....phono equalization is not required. The cartridges, when electrically loaded with 1 megohms or more, will produce a flat response with a typical output voltage of 0.4 volts. It does not require the extra stage of amplification. In low-cost phonographs, the cartridge is used to drive the output tube directly. An example is the 50EH5 that can deliver 1.4 watts when used in this manner."

I was under the impression that low-cost phonographs that used a cartridge to directly drive the output tube, the ubiquitous "one tube wonder" needed a high-output cartridge, such as a 3 volt, in order to get adequate volume. I have a little cheap GE stereo that uses 35EH5 output tubes and has a crystal cartridge. I need to look up the specs on the 35EH5, but isn't it just the same as the 50EH5 with the exception of the filament voltage? Could I use a ceramic cartridge in the little GE stereo in place of the crystal cartridge that is dead? What am I not understanding here?

I had seen that too. I just went and grabbed my old (1961)tube manual, a fragile object that I handle with great care. It says the 50EH5 is the same as the 6EH5 exc. heater voltage. The 6EH5 typical-operation specs call for a max. control grid voltage of 3 V and max. output of 1.4 W. But maybe it would be worth trying a low-voltage ceramic at the recommended load value just to see what happened. Maybe it depends on how efficient/sensitive the speaker is--they vary a lot. My tiny RCA suitcase portable has the output tube driven directly too. I bought a high-output cartridge from Gary Stork. It has a tiny 4" speaker and that may not put out as much sound as a more efficient speaker.

Chris Campbell