Changers versus turntables

[electra225]

I have been studying up on how to set up a new cartridge and headshell on a turntable tone arm. There are several "critical" adjustments they want done to the cartridge. You need a cartridge alignment protractor so you can make sure the cartridge tracks accurately not only on the outside of the record, but also on the inside. They want to make sure the tone arm runs perfectly level from the end of the headshell to the tone arm pivot. They want to check the azimuth, a 75-cent word that means that the stylus tracks perfectly vertical in the record grooves. Then they tell how to set the tone arm pressure, both before and after cartridge alignment. Most good turntables have provisions that tell whether the speed is accurate and provides adjustments for same.

This brings us to changers. The only things you can really check on a changer are tone arm pressure and stylus condition. The rest of the above adjustments are either engineered into the changer, or they don't matter. Changer tone arm run at all kinds of angles, depending on how many records are on the stack. Speed is close, but seldom right on the money. Who knows where the cartridge alignment is and whether the needle is running perfectly vertical or not. Still, they work. They don't plow records if they are in good condition. So......my question is why does any of this make sense? Why go thru the adjustments on a turntable that are unimportant in a changer. Are changers engineered and built "better" than turntables? Why do audiophiles turn their noses up at changers? Are turntables and changers somewhat like a Novi and a Farmall tractor? One needs fine tuning to work at it's best, the other will work regardless of how you treat it. I'm thinking the latter.....What say ye wise ones?

[danrclem]

I would think the average changer would be harder on a record than a turntable. Dual made some turntables that were also changers and I think some of them were supposed to be pretty good.

There are those that say a turntable with a 100% proper setup sounds better and has less record wear than one that's just setup ok. It does make sense that when everything is tracking well that there will be less wear on the record and could possibly sound better. I would think how much less wear on one set up well and one set up just ok would be hard to tell.

Bottom line is that I don't know for sure either and I'm just voicing my thoughts.

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

I had a few folks on the other forum argue that
record changers are just the worst ever, and ceramic carts
damage records beyond recognition.

All I know is that I've bought hundreds of old albums over
the years from garage/estate sales, and unless physically
raked up by the user, the vast majority were in
great shape. Some were even "mint".

Those estate homes usually had a nice stereo console
that could be from the 1950's to 1970's, with all
manner of changers.

There are some qualities such as anti-skating that
are built into the older changers.
V-M's have some anti-skate, though it is not adjustable.
Some BSR models do have adjustable anti-skate.

I think RCA used to print this on album inner sleeves:
"Beware The Blunted Needle ! "

A clean record and a good stylus seem to do fine
for my albums.
I just like the vintage hi-fi's and fixing them up to play again.

Here's an added bonus: Mr. Harry Mileaf's 1956 book: Servicing Record Changers.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/BOOKS ... f-1956.pdf

[electra225]

I have some of my wife's records from when she was a tadpole in the 1950's. Her family had a Magnavox console, not stereo, but with AM-FM radio. Some of her records were played "millions" of times. Some of them are so worn they look white in certain light. They still sound okay, with not as much background noise as you would expect. I have records that were played on the Truetone kiddie player I restored a couple years back. It always ran a diamond needle, but tone arm pressure was pretty heavy. Those records still sound okay, and they have also been played a lot. I supposed turntables set up "correctly" are a discipline I haven't experienced before, but may get that chance before too long. I don't think it hurts to explore where you haven't been before, take the opportunity to learn something. I reckon that's where I am with this project. Thank you all for your input.....

[TC Chris]

The real distinction is in quality of reproduction. Most changers are worse in speed accuracy, wow & flutter, rumble. They are mechanically less precise. Changer tonearms, at least in lower end models, did not have bearings, at least for vertical travel. They don't worry about the setup criteria because most changer owners weren't critical listeners. They preferred the convenience of changers. It's kinda like the German cars vs my Ford Ranger. I'm sure there are vast differences in ultimate handling, comfort, etc. but the Ranger is good enough for me. Others make different choices.

Chris Campbell

[danrclem]

The real distinction is in quality of reproduction. Most changers are worse in speed accuracy, wow & flutter, rumble. They are mechanically less precise. Changer tonearms, at least in lower end models, did not have bearings, at least for vertical travel. They don't worry about the setup criteria because most changer owners weren't critical listeners. They preferred the convenience of changers. It's kinda like the German cars vs my Ford Ranger. I'm sure there are vast differences in ultimate handling, comfort, etc. but the Ranger is good enough for me. Others make different choices.

Chris Campbell

I think you're right about the critical listeners. They are the ones who want their turntables perfect. I know at times I do critical listening and I really enjoy a recording with a good soundstage. Hearing the lead singer in the middle and instruments off to the side make me smile. My ears aren't the best but I love hearing the sounds that can't be heard on all systems. CDs that are recorded well are great for this but others aren't so great and some are downright awful. I really like hearing cymbals, bells and other sounds that may not stand out. So far I haven't been able to achieve very much of this with a turntable. Maybe my stuff isn't good enough and maybe my ears aren't good enough.

I recently bought a best of Johnny Rivers CD and it has great songs on it but when I try listen to it in front of my speakers it sounds kind of bland. When I listen to it as background music it sounds just fine.

I'd really like to hear a really good system playing vinyl just to see how good it can be. There are people who say a CD can't compare to vinyl but I'd sure like to find out firsthand.

[William]

Back when CD's first came out and I could still hear well I did not care for them, I thought they sounded tinny, lacked bass, power (I don't mean volume) and what I would call richness. Vinyl filled all those things the CD's lacked. Over the years CD's improved greatly and even though I am old and have poor hearing I can still tell the difference, the warmth and richness is still with vinyl records whether I am playing a console or my good component system.

Bill

[danrclem]

Back when CD's first came out and I could still hear well I did not care for them, I thought they sounded tinny, lacked bass, power (I don't mean volume) and what I would call richness. Vinyl filled all those things the CD's lacked. Over the years CD's improved greatly and even though I am old and have poor hearing I can still tell the difference, the warmth and richness is still with vinyl records whether I am playing a console or my good component system.

Bill

I hear the warmth of the vinyl records but I just don't hear the detail like I do with a good CD. Some vinyl is better than others but none of them deliver what I'd like to hear. Maybe I just need a good stylus or maybe a new pair of ears. Maybe I need to try and set it up again.