Classic Hifi Care

Heads up everybody in Michigan. A Concert Grand maybe near you? Hartland, Michigan........

Hartland is in Livingston County, Michigan. Looks like it might be in the SE part of the state.

Yeah, they want almost two grand, but that might not be carved in stone. This instrument has the S-600 changer, circa 1961, but I can't see the tuner well enough to see if it has an eye tube or not.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134221794446?h ... R_CSicrmYA

I spotted that the other day and went wow, this one is in good shape. But 2 grand, and the MPX thing is mounted on the back and not hooked up. It does have the eye tube so it must be an early 1961? Elton, it's on your side of the state.

Bill

The MPX must be factory. It is in the correct location. You have to disconnect it when you remove the back. That is why I mounted mine like I did, so it doesn't involve the back. I am more concerned that the changer is not only the wrong year, but it might not be a genuine Concert Grand changer, equipped with the remote control components. It might be a regular old changer. And I do see the eye tube, so it is a '59-'60 with the incorrect changer and no enclosures for the speakers. These facts might be used in negotiations to lower the price considerably, at least half, maybe half again. The cabinet appears to be cherry finished, in nice shape. A few flea bites, but nothing serious I can see. I believe if I wanted a CG and I was fairly close, I'd make a run at it. What have you got to lose? It has the remote control and all the goodies.

It looks to me that someone removed the upper half of the speaker enclosure. I can see a gasket type seal and screw holes where screws once lived. Is the aluminum looking things that are hanging down from the LH under carriage of the changer what the remote solenoid would attach to? Did CG ever use the 600 changer? I'm happy with my Imperial, it sounds awesome, and does everything I want it to so no GC in my immediate future.

Bill

Yea... that one is a little out of my league...

William wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:52 pm It looks to me that someone removed the upper half of the speaker enclosure. I can see a gasket type seal and screw holes where screws once lived.

It's possible they just opened up the enclosures to show the speakers.

Chris Campbell

That's what I was thinking, Chris. And why is there a Garrard spindle box in there? No sign of the remote control either.

Interesting enclosures. There's a strict formula for enclosure size to be used with a given speaker. Are these meant to be ported or acoustic suspension (I can't see ports, could be in the bottom) ? If the latter, th enclosures can be smaller (see AR-3) but if ported the enclosure would be larger. Be interesting to know the engineering, this was well before Thiele and modern acoustics theory math, which came in play later, circa 1972.

The speaker enclosures are sealed, no ports. Notice the gaskets on the mounting surfaces for the backs of the speaker enclosures. I don't know anything about "Thiele and modern accoustics theory math", but I do know that Magnavox was king of the hill when it came to consumer audio back in the day. Before I get hammered on this, notice that I said "CONSUMER AUDIO" not audiophool audio, component systems, theater systems, foreign systems, Western Electric systems, etc., etc.......

No shade on Magnavox, certainly they were tops in console sales. That said, the console and component audio markets were overlapping, not separate, consumer markets. Most components were bought by general consumers and most were not "Hi-fi nuts" or 'Stereo-nuts" as they were known then (or "audiophiles" nowadays, to use a non-derogatory term). My father certainly wasn't, he couldn't carry a tune in bucket but my mother wanted to listen to music so he bought her a Harman-Kardon receiver solely because it fit on a bookshelf, and I'd bet that was a not-unusual scenario. Scott made a big deal in their ads of the compact nature of their new low profile Scott 99 amp in 1955 and it's appeal to the distaff side... many components were bought for just that reason: wife acceptance factor, a lot of people didn't want big and heavy consoles in their living rooms even then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small_parameters

T/S parameters revolutionized speaker and cabinet design in the '70s, but the point of my comment was whether this console had sealed or ported enclosures, and wondering how enclosure volume was determined specifically because T/S didn't exist. All designers of speakers in any price range employ it now, just like suspension designers use computer technology developed by GM in the late '60s.

The point of acoustic suspension, popularized by AR, was extension of low frequency response to about 30-40 Hz in a smaller enclosure, but that wasn't always desirable in a console due to acoustic feedback to the cartridge and amplifier microphonics, the problem being typically avoided by intentionally attenuating response under about 80-100Hz which could result in overly "boomy", not true, bass response, and less sensitive cartridges. Thus it'd interest me to know the design philosophy employed here, and how the feedback problems were avoided. Stromberg used separate fiberboard sealed speaker enclosures which were isolated on heavy jute mats in the 2 speaker compartments. It'd be fun to talk to the engineers if any of them are still around, about stuff like this!

This topic is sliding off the rails pretty far. Let's continue this conversation about engineering on another topic, if you'd like to start one.

Well actually I thought my point WAS directly on topic as it's specifically about the speaker compartment of this Concert Grand in the original post and why it was configured like it is, why would I start a different post about it.

Good comments on the design issues. I've always wondered why the designers of consoles would place the record changer immediately adjacent to big speakers with no effort at all to isolate the changer. Basically, the changer is one wall of the enclosure. It would have been so easy to create at least some isolation. Just a piece of plywood.

One answer, I suspect, is that most consumers didn't really want wide frequency response. The bass they expected, from console radio days, was the boom that we criticize them for. I recall an article noting that in the '40s or '50s somebody did a sort of blind test, playing music over a high fidelity system and also over a consumer-grade phono. Listeners, at least those with untrained ears, tended to prefer the limited-range system of the extended-range one. (Of course, some hi-fi systems in the early days could be screechy and unpleasant; I've always wondered how good the "good" audio system was).
Chris Campbell

Roger, the comment I made about the topic running off the rails was for two reasons. And why you would start a new topic also has two answers.

Referring you to the thread on Chat "In case you hadn't noticed" you will see that the moderators are trying to tighten up moderation a tad. You will also see where I fell on my sword, admitting that I'm one of the biggest ducks in the puddle when it comes to running a topic off the rails. Fortunately for us, we have a couple moderators who are wanting to work on it. There is concern that if a topic goes off-topic, someone wanting to access information, in this case technical information on speakers, would have trouble finding your comments in the "Finds" forum. They would have better luck if it was posted in Components for speakers or Magnavox if discussing speakers in a Magnavox instrument specifically. This topic is about finding a Concert Grand for sale. Comments about the specifics such as price or condition are certainly appropriate for the topic. When the discussion turned technical, it ran off the rails. Better to start a topic in the appropriate forum for that discussion. And second reason to start a new topic is that I asked you to. I started the forum with the hope that everybody would enjoy it and feel welcome. But I also get into trouble because some people think we get too jumbled for them to follow if they aren't on every day. All I ask is that we work together and work on staying on topic. I don't want to discourage anyone to post what they are thinking, and I certainly appreciate your technical knowledge in this and other topics. Let's leave it there and move on.