General Electric changer

[electra225]

This stand-alone changer belonged to my step dad. He was a GE dealer until he passed in 1987. He was a diehard GE fan. He believed you could pay more, but would not find better electronic equipment than General Electric. He liked GE because he felt they were simple, relatively trouble-free and were easy to repair. And they were "popularly priced", i.e. cheap. This changer is like those used in the higher-end GE stereo equipment. This one is four speed, has an Astatic N-50 magnetic cartridge, and, apparently, still runs its original needle. I'm sure Sam would not have paid the price for a genuine replacement, he would have found an aftermarket cheaper replacement. The LP side of the needle is really bad. The changer runs, all four speeds works and it shuts off after the last record has played. I qualify that statement by saying the tone arm returns to rest, the knob returns to "off" the platter quits rotating, but the motor stays running until you rotate the platter one more revolution, then something clicks and the motor shuts off. Probably something gummed up with old grease. By the way it acts, the shut-off mechanism must pull the drive tire away from the motor shaft when it shuts off. I have no idea what model changer this is. To get the changer out of the base, you remove a Masonite cover off the bottom and get it out that way. There is a model number on the label, but that is for the outfit, not just the changer. It also says there are no user-serviceable parts inside....

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

That is a G.E. RD600 series changer.

These changers are not service friendly as far
as their dis-assembly goes.

Critical cycling areas can be sprayed out
with de-greaser and cleaned sufficiently to have
them function, without any dis-assembly.

[electra225]

So, if I understand correctly, my "stand back and shoot it with WD-40" routine may be the best way to service this changer? Any suggestions on what the issue with shut-off might involve? I have been looking on Mr. Google and on Gary's site and I don't see any reference to an Astatic magnetic cartridge. I can still get needles for an N 50 cartridge, but is it really magnetic, or just a low-output ceramic? What is this changer worth if it is serviced and ready to go? I may try to sell this, since I don't use it.

What makes this changer so unfriendly to service? This is a GE-built changer, isn't it?

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

Original formula WD40 is not a good de-greaser.
I use a dollar store degreaser, for cleaning of the mechanism.
Then apply appropriate lubricant after I dry off the mech.

The sub-plate assembly on these has some engineered
retainers on tonearm assembly, and other things that
must be removed before the sub-plate can be removed.

After one difficult attempt to remove the sub-plate on this type of changer,
I opted to use long q-tips, de-greaser and lubricant to do the cleaning
around the cycling mech.

There are several types of Astatic N50 cartridges in
their original catalog.
They all appear to be ceramic carts.

Changer value ? I'd say 20-30 dollars if working well.
YMMV depending on geography/market.

[electra225]

The fact that the Astatic N50 appeared to be a ceramic cartridge was my understanding as well. Thank you for the verification. Where did GE get the idea that changer had a magnetic cartridge? It's possible that this cartridge is not the original. My stepdad used this changer with a Marantz 2245 receiver which I still have. I will have to look and see if the Marantz has a provision for using it with a ceramic cartridge. I think I have a Pickering magnetic cartridge around here someplace......

[Motorola minion]

Nice thread on a changer that changed little over 10 years it seems. I had in a portable as my first record player, still amazed how full-featured it was.

Mine had a ceramic Varco mono cart thru a tiny amp all in a plastic clamshell box, The "swinger". It was a step up from my cousin's GE show and tell player. We had lots of fun with our record players as kids and I have to say the GE (based on a Glaser-Steers mechanism) was a tough workhorse.

As for a magnetic cartridge, it may have been original but cost of replacement may have driven a decision to use an Astatic, looks like a 133?

[electra225]

I got this changer out this afternoon to do some tinkering. I didn't have to remove the changer from the base, just pulled the bottom off the base and went to work. I had secured the tone arm before I plopped the changer upside down on the bench, on top of my styrofoam repair base I dug out of the trash at work. Following Mr. Mogul's advice, I used a brush with PB BLaster and alcohol and cleaned what I thought needed it. Then I relubed where it needed, which isn't much. The thing works pretty well, but it has a huge rumble issue after it ran about an hour. I think the motor mounts must be harder than they look. The drive tire seems okay. but the needle is toast for sure. The cartridge sounds good at this point. I'm not sure I'll spring for a drive tire, since I have plenty of record players. This thing isn't special enough to dump copious amounts of money into. It's only redeeming value to me is that it belonged to Sam. I'll get a set of motor mounts and a needle and let that be good......

This changer has a four-pole General Industries motor in it. The motor mounts appear to be soft and aren't loose. There sure is a bunch of rumble, and it is in the drive system someplace. I can put the tone arm on a record without the motor running and there is no rumble. I can rotate the platter by hand with the tone arm on a record and don't get any rumble. The drive tire doesn't slip, the changer cycles well, so no indication, other than age, that the drive tire should be replaced. Can the drive tire cause rumble? This thing has a provision for pulling the drive tire away from the motor when it is turned off. I don't hear any clicking or thumping that might be associated with a flat spot or an indentation in the drive tire. Ideas? Suggestions?

[TC Chris]

Rig a little wire to pull the idler wheel away while the motor is running so the turntable stops but the motor still goes. Leave the stylus on the disc. See what you hear. If the motor bearings are bad, maybe you'll hear the rumble. (Or maybe not, maybe vibration is greater when there is pressure on the motor spindle from the idler wheel when engaged.) Either way, it's a simple experiment.

You can also use plastic tubing as a sort of stethoscope. One end in your ear, the other end poking close to moving parts to see where the noise originates.

My old VM 1225GE with a 4-pole motor was in service a long time and has bearing wear. I've wondered about rotating the motor so a different bearing surface takes the idler wheel pressure. Haven't tried it yet.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

I have a real mechanic's stethoscope, so that is a good idea, Chris. Why couldn't I pull the platter, pull the drive tire from the motor shaft, then set the tone arm on the metal motor board? That would pick up noise from the motor. It's not all that bad using small speakers, but if I connect a set of 15" speakers, it gets fairly rumbly......

I believe before I get carried away I'd best just get a set of motor mounts just because. They might not be as good as I first thought. True enough, they are still flexible and soft. The "soft" part may be the problem. They might be so soft they have sagged and the "Jesus clips" that hold the motor on my actually be contacting the metal of the frame if you look REALLY close with a magnifying glass. I need to cover the basics before I start guessing. I should know better.....

[William]

Don't forget to check the bearing/race at the bottom of the platter.

Bill

[electra225]

I already checked that bearing. It was dry, but it looked good. There is no rumble as long as the motor is not running. The platter is one that coasts for some time after the motor stops since the drive tire is disengaged from the platter and the motor. I can spin the platter by hand and the record will play long enough for me to tell that there is no rumble with just the turntable turning.

I haven't figure out a couple of things. One is why there is no magnetic cartridge, when the tag on the turntable plainly says it has one and there is a four-pole motor, presumably to help with turntable rumble versus the standard two-pole job. Second is how the cartridge that is there is installed. The tone arm looks like it would accomodate the standard 1/2" mount cartridge. It may be glued in. I've had this changer since 1987 and I've never done anything with it.

[electra225]

It certainly appears to me that the cartridge is glued in. It is obvious that the headshell is made for a 1/2" mount cartridge. The original cartridge was possibly an Astatic 132, which is a "low output" cartridge of approximately .35 volts. I have had the changer since 1987 when my stepdad died. He was using this on his home stereo, the only one he had along with a Marantz 2245 that I still have. He used a set of large, 12" GE speakers, which lasted about an hour powered by my SX-1050. When this system was new, it had a GE tube receiver with it, but he had a customer "with money burning a hole in his pocket", so he sold the receiver to his customer, then bought the Marantz for temporary use until he got another GE receiver, which never happened. The only time I have used this changer was to digitize some 78's one time. I'm wondering if turntable rumble was an issue with this changer, so somebody, sometime, changed to a ceramic cartridge as a workaround for the rumble. I don't know that, just speculation.

[William]

Your GE changer looks a little like on I worked on for the antique here in town. It basically just needed a little cleaning up and a new needle. I belonged in one of GE's portable units and when I was done I do not remember any rumble. Of course the one I worked on only had a 2 pole motor.

Bill

[electra225]

I wonder if there is a market for something like this changer. Shipping would probably cost more than the changer is worth. I'll get a set of motor mounts and a needle for it then see what I have. I'm not in love with this changer, so I'm not going to put a lot of time or money into it.

[electra225]

I think I'm going to spend some time on this changer to see if I can get the cartridge out of it without destroying the cartridge. I don't supposed destroying the cartridge would be the end of the world, but it's still good and might be usable in something else. IIRC, the headshell is removable, but it's not the kind you can change without rewiring the cartridge. I can get a headshell from Gary if that is the case, then mount a magnetic cartridge, maybe a Stanton 500. I'm going to try Chris's suggestion and see can I isolate the rumble somehow. I can pull the motor, clean and lube it, see if it runs quietly without load. Then replace the mounts and see if the rumble is there with the motor running, but with no drive tire. Then put the drive tire back on, see if I get rumble. The changer has a four-pole motor, so it was obviously designed for a magnetic cartridge. Knowing my stepdad and seeing the cartridge has been glued in, a good theory is that it developed a rumble, but, instead of troubleshooting and repairing correctly, he just glued in a ceramic and called it good. There might also have been some deterioration that has occurred in the 40 years I've had it, basically unused all that time. I think this would make a cool changer with a Stanton magnetic cartridge in it......